Is Kung Fu a subculture? Martial Arts is a culture thing like Hip Hop is you asshat. Most schools in the states still train using the martial arts native langauage. Do understand what we are saying now?

Listening to you make me think of a White guy who like hip hop said about an Asian rapper he saw. “Why would anyone listen to an Asian Rapper. They hate Black people more than we do and understand them far less.” Sadly your crap makes this nut seem like he might know what he’s talking about.

Since you don’t want to listen to a Black point of view. Talk to Oliver Wang and Jeff Chang on this subject. I’m sure you will be very surprised on hat they will tell you.

RESPONSE TO THE ABOVE COMMENT:

Being my friend that Africa is the original and oldest cilivization in the world, would it not stand to reason that many creative art forms used and viewed in today’s society were introduced by that “Originator” and then expounded upon and profited from by other civilizations who would fall into the catagory of “Imitators.

That said. I don’t feel that Black America is trying to deny Asians a presence in the hip hop culture. I feel that Black America is denying Asians the right to claim hip hop soley as their creation. I ask where were the so-called down Asians hip hopsters decades ago when this underground cultural moverment was struggling against all odds for the approval of main stream society and the world at large, to be recognized and accepted as another legitimate expression of the art form.

I feel that Asians do not at this point in the game get a free pass to demand to be a part of and to capitilize off of the success of those who fought long and hard for hip hop, breaking, bboying, locking, freestyling, etc., and the list goes on and on, because they think it should be a free for now all and winner take all.

It’s true that Blacks have borrowed some of your kung fu and karate moves to incorporate into their own. Thats only considered a give and take situation with most cultures. No offense taken and none give. But it’s considered an insult when another culture comes along and blatantly takes what is not theirs from the beginning and try to twist it into another one of “His Stories” through underhanded manipulation and deception with winner take all.

I’ve recently been watching this new MTV show called Randy Jackson Presents “America’s Best Dance Crew” and I’ve noticed that 75-90 per cent of the dance crew contestants vying for the ultimate $100,000 prize are of Asian descent. The show is now in its 2nd season and people are still talking about the 1st season when they were on. In fact, the winners, runner-ups and eliminated performers for both shows are for the majority of Asian descent. Which makes me wonder why the sudden influx, interest and visibility of so many Asians in this area of performance. I just never thought this was something high on their priority list.

I also see that within in the last 10 years or so there have been bboy dance contest being held all over the world (USA included) where Asians have been partiscipating on a large scale, and, winning on a consistant basis. In fact, they seem to be dominating the hip hop, bboying, locking, freestyling, etc genres. Whenever I watch You Tube videos I keep wondering where are all the Black and Latino brothers at in all this? Their presence seems to have almost become exstinct in this area.

It also seems that whenever a Black bboy takes on a dance challengce against an Asian bboy, he somehow loses. It seems as if the very art form that his culture helped to created and introduce now pales by comparison in the eyes of the judges to the performance and skill levels of his new Asian competitor.

I think the sudden interest in this “new dance culture” by others is slowly working it’s way up to becoming a legitimate competition in the World Olympics. Original Hip Hop/BBoys/BGirls get your game up.

So my question to you…. do you really believe Asians are have not been embraced by the hip hop culture? Peace.

What do you think about Asian American Hip Hop? Why not just call it Hip Hop? Why break away from the mainstream. That Like saying Black Kung fu.

The core element of is Hip Hop African American and AFRICAN. RAP can be traced from Jamaica to Africa. Yes Latinos help shape Hip Hop (Mainly Puerto Ricans, Dominicans, and Cubans). Do you know what Latinos did to set in stone there place in the Hip Hop kingdom? You are talking about a group who fought for this thing from the early days. Asians have long way to go.

Asians are very protective of their culture so in turn I would expect you to expect the same from African Americans. No one is saying Asians can’t take part in Hip Hop. But respect and understanding are needed.

As for asians doing their hair like blacks, it is very understandable that they do this. In America, on TV, magazines, and every other form of media, the only celebrities and idols seem to be either black or white. That is the majority. So the asian youth, like all other youth, choose idols and people to look up to. So is it going to be michael jordan? thom yorke? kurt cobain? Nas? i mean, whatever they choose it’ll be either black or white. Young people want to be like, and look like their idols. So if the person they look up to has an afro, then they’ll get their hair like that, because thats who they look up to. it is not that they want to be black, it is because they want to like they person they look up to. This is not ridiculous at all. what else can they do? there aren’t many asian superstars in the american media.

When i younger, i was very into graffiti. Graffiti, the kind from New York started by poor black, latino, and cacausian kids. Not started by Asian kids. But by practicing my painting skills and doing graffiti in the middle or the night everywhere for a number of years, i was a part of this culture. I was authentically part of this culture not started by asian kids. Because i contributed to it. i have as much right to be a part of the graffiti culture as a black person, or lationo person or cacausian person. because it comes down to you as an artist, not your race. If my skills and style are better than the other person, thats all that should matter, not my race. i mean, am i wrong? this seems very logical to me. i talk about this graffiti thing, because it is similar to this hip hop topic we are on right now.

Anyways, thats all i can really think of right now.

I think there’s a fine and subjective line between appropriation and homage. There is no place in a music world that thinks in blacks and whites for asians, although handsome boy modeling school had an asian in it, and snoop dogg’s friend/assistant is asian?

.I doubt the title “Changing the Face of the Game” is about hostility against the black faces in Hip Hop; rather, it’s probably about the lack of Asian faces in Hip Hop (or any other section of a music industry that’s pretty obviously racist; though maybe not as much as visual media? (maybe))

.Interesting how he seems to equate physical features with “blackness” or “Asianness” re: Oliver Wang’s intro. What the rapper identified with though is a valid point, though offset when you consider blacks who “passed” for white in their careers, e.g. O.J. Simpson — read a book by Dyson recently that examined this in a chapter, and apparently he didn’t identify too strongly with the black community in his career days, but a bit more during the trials — still, that didn’t stop black people from “claiming” him, yeah?

.Seems to be twisting words as much as Wang is twisting history when he talks about Hip Hop’s “creation” vs. its “development” — its roots are undeniably black, but the entire thing hasn’t been created within a black vaccuum where no others have been able to enter. And damn, only Latinos and blacks can become part of the ghetto poor? //>>>model minority myth. Wang’s comment describing Hip Hop as “unskilled” is disturbing though. Obviously not everyone can rap (well). Though I’m beginning to question whether he was talking about the talent and skill required, or the equipment, etc. (Comparative costs of starting up a rock band vs. a rap group//instruments, etc. vs. a computer or DJing equipment (or even someone who can beatbox) — most of the time, rock is more expensive than rap yeah?)

.Starting with the Brown Sugar reference, Farrow’s condescending attitude bothers me — every time some aspect of Hip Hop culture is referenced by anyone not black, he seems to dismiss them as charlatans, with nothing more than a surface-level understanding of the culture.*

,The “at least that was honest” part seems to equate Asian with white — which only serves to perpetuate the model minority myth — which doesn’t help any people of color. And again, dismisses Michelle as nothing more than a charlatan.*

.”In all of the talk thus far, we have conveniently skirted around the issue of race.” Glaring black/white mentality(bias) here — if it’s not about black people, it’s not about race? Someone needs to open their eyes, or take an intro-level soc course…valid points about historically black music being taken and reappropriated by the majority culture though; but I don’t see Hip Hop as being in danger of falling victim to that anytime soon.

.I don’t think that Farrow is making any valid point regarding MVs and image/re*presentation* vs. lyrical/musical ability. The same blanket statement could be applied to millions of people (of all colors) who latch onto the materialistic rockstar/street dreams that the mainstream presents as Hip Hop culture.

.Farrow assumes that the image of the black male as a hypermasculine gangster type is the only reason that people are attracted to rap…essentially calling us posers hungry for a commodified revolution (think Che shirts), like people who get into film to be indy, skateboarding to be punk, etc. (f.ck him)

.Ugh, I hate how he dismisses the social conscience of every APIA in the room based on his perception of everyone there as pretentious white liberal-faux-socially conscious member of society. I doubt there was a significant portion of the crowd sporting dreds and afros…but whatever he needs to sell his reporting.

.Dismissing points as asinine seems like an easy way out of difficult conversation; hypocritical in light of his criticisms re: leaving out significant portions of the “big picture” re: Hip Hop culture. Boo the lack of academic and journalistic integrity.

.I somehow doubt that the black panelist (why unnamed?) was acting the part of the house negro as much as Farrow is trying to sell him…but then again, there is a tendency to overdo the ingratiation when you’re trying to get other people to open up to your culture (90% of all activities put on by multicultural organizations). All the same, Farrow’s obvious bias casts doubt on his interpretation.

.Ugh, 8 Mile did a horrible thing in trying to pull white struggles with reverse racism as the major issue, but damn. Jin? That’s f.cking offending. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe that he only brought up his Asian identity as a source of pride in (a) reaching out to the APIA audience that looks up to him in songs and (b) countering what were obviously racist/race-baiting attacks against his APIA identity. It was pretty infuriating to see/hear every opponent of his pull race on him while hiding comfortably behind the majority black audience. (And yes, I recognize the fallacy of pulling reverse racism if you’re in a privileged position, but I feel that in this case (rap battles before a predominantly black audience) that wasn’t the case). LOLZ WTF!!1 @ a rapper like Nas having to play the race card to get ahead…or ANYBODY being so uninformed as to assume that. Talk about abstract strawmen (never heard anyone use this before).

.Yeah on the “soulful” part — sounds like the “Asians are smart” bit.

.Ugh — class and race intersect and mesh for people of color, especially if they’re poor — Jim sounds like he’s bought into the “colorblindness” myth, at least to some degree.

.And Farrow seems to have bought into the “Oriental Jews” myth as well. Damn, dissing on the underground…culture is big, but just because you get to create the culture from the position of a label owner like Sean Combs doesn’t mean that you’re “authentic” — more likely you’re prostituting the culture to reach the masses (hm!). Mutherf.cker trying to deny the credibility of conscious critics by making them outsiders.

.F.ck this guy; doubt he knows what Yellow Rage is about — or even gives a sh.t. Failing as a potential ally. Hm, glad for the recommendations on reading material (ironic universal point for Michelle).

.Interesting here. I’m p.ssed off at this fool’s divisive politics, but definitely DO get p.ssed off at hippie-types who try and appropriate Asian culture — I see a significant difference in that Asian culture is based off a peoples, whereas Hip Hop is both the people and the music — and when it’s something that is often more loosely defined than “peoples” (problems with defining “people” itself sure), there’s a tendency for the demographics to expand. Religion based on tradition; but music that sprung from an oppressed minority searching for a voice. I’m a bit stuck on this, but ultimately see the truest expression of Hip Hop not in the person who proclaims it, but rather the words coming out of her or his mouth (social justice vs. blackness; though black identity is definitely a large, integral part of the culture — not exclusively however). Damn, he’s going way over the top with the “slaves” bit though.

.Wtf? Ancestor worship is a tradition that’s been well established in Asian countries for thousands of years. That’s all I’m gonna say. Oh! Oppression Olympics…is that maybe what I’ve been trying to get at throughout all this? (serious question). This idiot needs education on Asian culture. Chopsticks in the hair? Seriously? Someone’s seen one too many geishas…and claiming every f.cking thing as if we’re incapable of any original thought; even if it is paying homage, let her.

.Writer’s bias obvious in his refusal to take in the performance. But again, I’m always hesitant to watch little white preteens (and even the occasional legit black belt) breaking boards in the name of TKD. But there are obviously people who are more into it than I’ll ever be — and some of them are white.

.You know, for some reason, I really doubt Oliver Wang was trying to equate blackness with slavery…

.I don’t get the paragraph re: the green color line. I’m assuming Wang is calling for alliances between racial groups through Hip Hop and Farrow is sneering? And hypocrisy — Farrow is as eager to point out the black as Farrow is to point out the Asian.

.Interesting point about people shrugging off personal racism by directing all questions to the social structure. He may have a valid point here with Oliver Wang being part of a white media that controls everything — but this dude also maintains an independent blog, etc. And what’s the difference between Oliver Wang and a black person? there’re plenty of black journalists and reviewers giving glowing reviews to 50 cent and the like — they’re all part of the system.

.Farrow ignores the absence of prominent As. Am. artists just as much as Wang ignores the absence of black label owners — though I’d reserve judgment on Wang; want to check out And You Don’t Stop, read through it and see how he presents things; and I want to check out Farrow’s stuff as well.

.Does anyone else find the “white nationalist” comparison to be a bit of a stretch (filled with holes)? And I’m going to point out my own hypocrisy before someone else does and call attention to the word choice here: “immigrant.” Hm…perpetual foreigner, anyone? And tying us together with white folks again. Ugh. And I’m not sure who he’s talking to in the next few paragraphs — I think he’s purposely blurring the lines between whites and Asians (as honorary whites); I wish he wouldn’t do that.

.Not sure about this one: does relative wealth of black Americans tie into what’s largely been a discussion about Hip Hop culture?

.Wow, Farrow seems to totally understand how the dominant white society pits people of color and other oppressed groups against each other, but completely misses the point — we’re supposed to see this and rise above it, not fight for crumbs, or in some oppression olympics.

.There is a point to be made in us as APIAs examining and pushing away our potential status as “honorary whites;” and instead serving as APIA allies to the cause of all People of Color.

.I like how he claims the stereotypes as “black.” Not really.

.And yeah, I’m totally for APIAs using Hip Hop as a means of artistic expression, and a voice against everything that’s wrong in society. I’m sure that’s why a lot of people get into Hip Hop (okay, maybe not a lot but…). And Farrow seems to be okay with that. But he seems too blinded by his own prejudices and the Asian = white mentality to let that happen.

And screw you. You can’t just trash what I connect with and find inspiration from every time someone like Jin, Chan, or FM rap about their experience as APIAs in America. And damn, I think Jenny Choi rocks pretty hard, even if she isn’t white. Plenty of people like James Iha, Thomas Lauderdale. Will.I.Am. Chops. Chad Hugo. To say nothing of the countless APIA musicians representing with the classical.

They look ridiculous chemically burning their hair to make it look like an afro and wearing dreads and cornrows, but have the audacity to say that its not Black culture, its hiphop culture.

Thats like me wearing kimono and reading haiku while at sushi restaurant drinking sake, but saying that its not Japanese culture, its just a poetry reading at a local bar.